Jeff S "Golden Box"
  • Hi there,

    I am a new member here, and have some minor experience with hypnosis so far.
    Dont know who is familiar with Jeffrey Stephens concept of the "Golden Box" here - but I guess its pretty popular now.

    So maybe somebody in the know can help me with my question.

    I did a "non smoking " session with a co hypnotic student and in my view it did not really work. He is a smoker for 35 years now, and a phycologist himself. After the session he had no urgent craving for cigarettes (no told me he normally has - so thats a big change for him) but he still smokes. (Not even less) He claims that the "only" difference now is that he does not fear situations where he knows beforehand that he cannot smoke - because he does not care if he smokes or not.

    Now having said that, I am wondering if the Golden Box is supposed to work at the first try. Or maybe it needs a couple of days / weeks to settle in? Shall I do it a second time after a week or so? Could it be that his subC Minds needs a more direct approach and not a subtile one? (Like: "hey, subC mind. you know its not healthy for him. so, just stop it right NOW.")

    I got all the required acknowledgment ("nod your head when you accept and understand this") but you see the outcome.

    As I dont know what the supposed outcome of the session is (in my view it was him never touching a cigarette ever again) this whole situation is a bit frustrating.

    Thanks for you help,

    Gregor
  • 17 Comments sorted by

  • One does not need to be aware of this golden box idea, one needs to know how change occurs in the brain and how it's maintained. When it comes to change, people need to value the alternative way of behaving. I don't mean value in a linguistic sense, "I value (x)" I'm talking about demonstrated value. So for example, this individual mentioned that he is still smoking. So obviously he values smoking over not smoking. You can't just take a behavior away from someone and pretend it'll all be better. You need to replace that behavior with a more constructive behavior that will include a backslide strategy for when they fall off track. They need to have a pattern built up that says, "When I go off track, I need to get RIGHT back on track IMMEDIATELY" That's a motivational and practice issue.

    In the brain, the behavior this person has engaged in is wired up. . . tight! It's been that way for years and you're expecting they just drop that and all the neurochemistry will go back to before they smoked just because of one hypnosis session? A lot of people think like that and yes some people can do that if it's done properly but in the end . . . it's a pipedream to think that'll happen with everyone. It depends on how you built up the motivation, the backslide strategy, the demonstrated value of the new behavior, the congruence of the new behavior with other areas of the individuals life and how the individual will handle this change in terms of family and friends. Family and friends have a tendency of "testing" the new change a member makes. "You quit smoking? You sure? (blows smoke in face) Remember when you broke up with Lisa and felt so calm when you chain smoked with me under the bridge by our house? " All that stuff is GOING to happen and one should really prepare their client for that behavior so the change isn't undone.

    It's not just about giving someone direct suggestions to quit smoking. There's many aspects to consider and people fail when they don't consider them or think "it's too much" Let me say this: When it comes to helping other people better their lives, there's no such thing as too much. It is your responsibility (if you decided to take it) to make sure this person makes the change as quickly and safely as possible. Some people are motivated in different ways. Some are motivated about the positive end result of a change. Others wont take action unless their threatened with death. Others focus on the negative consequences if they DONT take action. You need to find out how the individual standing in front of you is motivated. By the way, asking them "How are you motivated" Is a silly way to go about it. Start inquiring about othe changes they've made easily and spontaneously and take it from there. Remember, don't try to make someone become motivated in the way YOU think they should be motivated. That will fail. YOu need to find out how one is ALREADY motivated themselves. And they'll probably be clueless consciously. That's why you need to find out through asking how they've motivated themselves in other areas of their life.

    I've helped my dad quit smoking. But that's a long story lol
    What do you want? Where are you in relation to that? And what do you need to pull in to get there?
  • Hi,

    aceofmagic - I guess for this specific question you DO need to be aware of Jeffrey Stephens "Golden Box" concept.

    The way he does changework (and of coure I am aware how the subC mind and the brain works) all those factors (other people, habbits etc.) should not make a negative impact on the change itself.

    As in this very suggestion you are telling the subC mind that the person is now a non smoker, hence no cravings, no withdrawals, and even other people smoking dont bother the "subject".
    You get acknowledgment from the subC mind that it accepts the change. Not being an ex smoker, but a non smoker.

    I am pretty sure, that if additional motivational suggestions or talk is required, that would have been mentioned in the training.

    So while I appreciate your efforts and lengthy reply - it does not help me in my particular case.

    In case I did not stress this enough - I am looking for replies from people aware of the golden box method, and who have actually successfully used it.

    Thanks alot

    Gregor
  • Look, taking a step back from all of this and looking at the big picture. I have learned from many different people as I progressed through hypnosis training. I have had arguments with people who have threatened the credibility of the person I was learning from at the time. Who the hell were they? Obviously my teacher had credibility or he wouldn't be getting the results he was getting. In fact, he wouldn't be so well known as a good teacher if he wasnt skilled. He is making money, getting the results and has a theory that makes sense to me. That's all I needed. So I totally get where you're coming from and how my opinion on the matter may seem rather harsh. But realize it's not towards you. It's directed at this concept that has infected the hypnosis circle. That of the unconscious mind. After years of training and more importantly, years of applied practice. I've realized how much of the things I was taught by a certain teacher was false. Completely and utterly wrong and could not be validated without presupposing things that didn't exist. In short, my teacher was actually very ill informed and was working similar to a mystical healer. Hey, they get results too right? Belief is a very powerful thing. But giving suggestions, which are just words being spoken at someone and thinking they will do anything whatsoever automatically is just naive. It's like saying, all I have to do is go up to a cashier at a store and say, "You're unconscious mind will give me all the money and then believe this never happened" Of course that wouldn't work. "Well the cashier wasn't in trance" Ok now we're making stuff up at this point. Suggestion work only as well as they are accepted. Ideomotor signaling is all well and good but at the end of the day, it fails credibility. You're talking to something that doesn't exist so you can't possibly get results unless the person you're speaking with fully believes in what you're saying. In other words, it has to have a feeling of weight, of substance to the person otherwise it won't have any affect. SO I started looking towards other teachers. Basically the same pattern occurred. Until I reached the man whom I'm learned from currently. I'm never done learning. He has been in the field for over 25 years and has stripped hypnosis away down to its fundamental observable parts. He's taken new scientific research and has taught me how to apply it in hypnosis. What is hypnosis? What is the unconscious mind? There is none.

    I don't meant to sound argumentative but there is no such thing as an unconscious or subconscious mind. It's a way of talking about stuff. You can't cut the brain open and point to the unconscious mind. So I would suggest that you are indeed not aware of the brain works with change or how change occurs in human beings. I would suggest that this person as well is not aware of these things. There's been recent work in Priming by JOhn Bargh. I would recommend researching that because that's as close to unconscious as it gets scientifically. All that other nonsense in hypnosis courses is just perpetuating an entity that doesn't exist. You can't communicate with the unconscious mind because no such things exists in reality. It's a concept. It's like talking to Santa or the Easter Bunny. They're only real in the minds of the people. Not actual things. You can't just say "Now you're a nonsmoker" and poof! It just doesn't happen. YOu're implying amnesia for ever having been a smoker I get that. But just because you say some words you call a "suggestion" doesn't mean that it changes the neurochemistry of the person's habits through years of constant repetition and practice. This is the thinking that's holding hypnosis back and why most people won't consider it as a practical tool for mental or physical health.

    There is no line between conscious and unconscious. These are subjective things. What one person may not be conscious of, another may be very conscious of. So it's not a black and white line. We each have different levels of awareness. It's more of a color spectrum. How one color fades. . . blends. .. mixes with the other. That's how consciousness is. So you may THINK you are aware of how our brain chemistry works, how change occurs in the brain neurologically, how someone deals with withdrawal (because all the good intentions in the world won't stop it. It's how our body operates. Extreme changes take time otherwise our body would be under so much stress we would get sick. Look it up.) However, the extent to which someone is consciously aware of these changes and physically feels them is different. Because pain is also very subjective. Physical sensation is subjective. So one may go through withdrawal with relative comfort. Not complete, but relative. So it's not unbearable. But it will occur just like venom will course through your veins if bitten by a snake. You can't stop that part. You can adjust the comfort level though. The cravings will still exist unless what I wrote above occurs. You need a way of dealing with backsliding, you need to create a powerful experience so you rewire behavioral value and you need to give a person something else instead of (x) behavior. I don't need to know this guy's particular way of doing it because the brain works in a fundamental way. If you go against that, it will create issues.

    I've spent a lot of time studying people who change automatically and spontaneously. They've always included the above topics. If you really want to help people then consider the possibly that you and this teacher may have it wrong. You owe it to the people you plan to work with. It's your responsibility to take care of your clients and to make damn sure you have it right every step of the way. I've been very wrong at times and I've learned from it. And I've learned some different things from what you're being told. So I emphatically suggest doing the gritty research work that no one wants to actually do so you can become better at what you want and have your client's care in mind at all times. Say you have it wrong. Say this guy has it wrong. And say you're so fixed in this idea that you actually try helping people using these ideas and it fails. . . again. Then again . . . Then again . . . . Until you've now damaged the confidence of the people who trust you can help them and now are even more skeptical of hypnosis from when they first came in. Now they're taking medications, relapsing left and right, sees a doctor and is told he has a personality disorder which is what started the smoking to being with. Is taking even MORE pills and becomes depressed and suffers all the side effects from pharmacology and is now suicidal. Look, this isn't an example to paint a clear picture of my point. This is what happens every single damn day to people. This story of the story of hundreds of thousands of people all over the world and it's your responsibility to make sure they are taken care of the first time.

    You mentioned that this technique didn't work for you. You don't even know the outcome of the session. SO WHY ARE YOU DOING ANYTHING AT ALL? If you don't know how to test your work, if what you're doing isn't working and if what you do requires you speak to something that doesn't exist then my god! Something has to change sir. Don't be lured in by infinite promise. Do the hard work and start researching how people just stop doing things. Interview people who have done it. "Hey I want to ask you a couple questions about how you just stopped smoking instantly and haven't smoked since. What made you stop? Can you take me through what happened step by step so I really understand?" And start taking notes. LOTS of notes.

    Take care and stay well!
    What do you want? Where are you in relation to that? And what do you need to pull in to get there?
  • pfff.... obviously you are so focused on "your way of doing it" that you dont even read my reply.
    I asked people who are practicing by the method I mentioned. You are not as the case maybe. So, thanks, but NO THANKS, I dont need your reply.

    You could have saved all the time and effort of writing your reply, because after the first paragraph I stopped reading anyway.

    And thats not because I am rude, or disrespect you. But imagine you ask somebody where the battery is in a specific car type, make and model. But instead of a simply, correct answer, you get a lecture about how a car is made.

    In fact, your reply is disrespectful to me, as you are not respecting my time and try to make me read something, and waste my time after I told you that your first post is not what I am interested in.

    So, if anybody ELSE has something to say - please fell free to do so. If not, I guess I am outta here.

    G.

  • You should not be dealing with people with that attitude. Grow up and learn how to do your research and take your art a little more seriously. I looked this guy up. He's a lost cause. If you want to only learn by his way then go ahead. YOu'll get nowhere.


    Take care
    What do you want? Where are you in relation to that? And what do you need to pull in to get there?
  • Just for the record, I apologize for offending you. I hope you find what you're looking for.


    Best Wishes
    What do you want? Where are you in relation to that? And what do you need to pull in to get there?
  • Ace, I get that you don't believe in a subconscious mind. I don't understand why, and your reasoning is worse that poor, logically speaking.

    "You can't cut the brain open and point to the unconscious mind."

    This is, at best, an argumentative statement. And at worst... well, never mind. This is the logical equivalent to saying "You can't cut open a hard drive and point to software. And then tell the difference between system software and application software and data files."

    The 'mind' is not the same thing as the 'brain'. The mind is what drives the brain, which is what drives the rest of the body. And, if it makes you feel better to say that some functions are autonomic while others are thoughtfully engaged in, then that is fine.

    However, the GB system is based upon the premise that there IS a conscious mind and a subconscious mind. It is based upon the 'concept' that by rewriting the operational code of the subconscious mind we - the hypnotists - can alter the related behavior. I have used this method with countless clients for years and have a success rate that reflects the very high value of continuing to use this methodology and model.

    You may argue that success is no reason to believe that this 'model' is correct. I will refer to the old saying "A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument."

    I believe you are sincere in your desire to be helpful. However, in this case, your complex psychological model will not make a dent in real hypnosis and what it can accomplish. Simple is better than complex. Hypnosis works.

    And one student's journey in learning how to apply the GB model - and his lack of success with one subject - does not invalidate what he has done or the model itself. If you work best by over-complicating, then by all means do what you do best. But since you began by saying you are ignorant of the method that this person used, you really have no grounds to stand by anything else that you posited.

    For the record, I am Jeffrey Stephens and I have a fantastic success rate. Just recently, a man who smoked 2.5 packs a day (approx 50 cigs), who had been smoking for 48 years, walked away stating that he couldn't even imagine putting a cig in his mouth. The idea of smoking seemed entirely foreign to him. Three weeks now and he has had no desire, no withdrawals, no side effects. All because, in hypnosis, his subconscious mind was told specifically to not 'create' those things. Every feeling, every emotion, every physiological action and reaction happens because the subconscious mind makes it happen.

    Hope this helps.

    BTW, this is the norm for non-smoker sessions. The result is accomplished at the first session. If this isn't what happened, please let me know and we can work through what was done and what the results were. I am always happy to help.

    If you wish to discuss this via Skype, my Skype name is i_hypnotize.
  • Hello there! The idea of the subconscious has been outdated for quite some time. I'm not interested in going back to November and rehashing this whole discussion again since it went nowhere the first and will do the same the second time. There is no such thing as an subconscious mind. Yes, these are conceptual. And the metaphorical implications do allow for one to make sense of some things and create others. However, its completely separated from what we as hypnotists actually do. There is more than one way to skin a cat and some ways are better than others. I think sticking to what we're there to do without complicating it by introducing "subconscious" conceptualizations makes it much easier to work out. You claim I'm complicating matters. To me, what I said requires one to actually think differently about what they're doing. That takes time, effort and proper training. People change under many circumstances. Some people will change under a wider array of circumstances while someone else may only have the flexibility to do it under very tight and strict circumstances. That's common sense. So obviously if I go around claiming I'm jesus incarnate and if I touch them they'll notice a significant change in their life, SOME people are going to respond to that. That's diving into their belief systems. That can be as wide spread as you like. Some people are so easy that just being in a hypnotists office will give them what they need to change. Whether it be an authority figure telling them to change, perhaps the fact that the office symbolizes competence or some other thing. If that person's pattern for change is tapped into, they'll do it. But it takes a lot of work to do that without gimmicks or tricks.

    Simply put, one way of doing things isn't enough. Not everyone will respond to the GB method and for good reason. There needs to be actual skill and technique that requires refining. I can use the GB technique but call it something different. Direct suggestion itself needs to be understood. We're not communicating to two different minds. Tons of neurological research has proven this. There is no separate person inside someone's mind controlling things. Because then there would have to be another person controlling the second person's mind etc etc. It's call the homunculous problem. The New Unconscious edited by Ran Hassin, James Uleman and John Bargh explains it all. I suggest you pick it up. There's a lot of valuable stuff in there. They speak about the "unconscious" but that's defined as specific behaviors that people are unaware of. Not a separate person or mind. That's an easily confused distinction.

    My point is this: There is no "subconscious mind" that is separate from the individual. We are very whole and work as one unit. Everything from our sensory perception to our psychological considerations. To separate people up and basically turn them into temporary schizophrenics is absurd. We have other ways of working that surpass the old school hypnosis methods. We can pile those old techniques up and place them on an antique shelf. You wouldn't use inductions from the 1940's today would you? Of course not! Because we've developed and expanded more effective ways.

    Unfortunately success rate means little without context. How about those evangelical healers on TV? I bet they have an AWESOME success rate. That's because the right people go to their performances. Simple as that. So if you were to go into detail on exactly what steps this GB method include, I'll be more than happy to illustrate the lackings of the technique, the benefits and why it doesn't work for everyone. I'm really tired right now so forgive me for being blunt and brief. But reply to this with the steps and we'll go from there. Otherwise, there's absolutely no point in discussing this further without anything tangible to speak about.
    What do you want? Where are you in relation to that? And what do you need to pull in to get there?
  • I'm sorry Ace but your whole reasoning rests on no science what so ever. The worst part is you're being very offensive about this. Try debating in a more friendly way. We're one hypnosis community and we'll all help eachother.

    I for one have used the JS Golden Box tons of times with a 90% succes rate.
  • :/ i think this is all out of my range of experience haha, so im not going to exaggerate my belief on the subject, but i do believe that what you believe is what you believe and the more you believe that, the more it is true to you.
    I've only been hypnotising for nearly a week and I've tried making a mate stop smoking, im confident i will get there because he loves being hypnotised and is very open to the idea that he is in control of his own body. So i start by telling him to imagine himself before he started smoking, good happy times in which there was no thoughts of smoking, I exaggerate on how he feels when he was a non smoker and realise that nothing has changed from then and now, he is the only one that is making himself a smoker and he has the will power to change that for the good of his health, not because he's been told it's for the best. I tell him that when he gets the idea of having a cigarette he will be reminded of good times and how he realises that the satisfaction he gets from deciding not to have a cigarette will be far more than any satisfaction he gets from cigarettes.
    Obviously taking into account not to use negatives and i like to make him feel that he is deciding this for himself because he knows deep down (dare i mention that i support Subconcience and he is open to the idea?) that it's the best choice and looking out for his best interest. So in other words making the realisation that smoking is unhealthy and damaging for your body which you should have repect for.
    He told me today he felt less cravings and had smoked half as much today after i hypnotised him yesterday. While giving him his daily hit of relaxation lol, i just reinforced that idea to him again, will probably mention again next time.
    I'll keep you updated if i get any long lasting results :)
  • Hello Ace,

    So let me get this straight; If I GIVE you my system you will be happy to evaluate it from a position of prior bias. I'll pass.

    There are specific logical flaws in virtually every aspect of your position. I shall address only a few of them.

    1) There is no such thing as 'scientific evidence' to prove there is no subconscious. It simply does not exist. There are 'theories' posited by various theoreticians. I also cannot prove the existence of the subconscious. However, working from the position that it DOES exist gives me consistent and lasting results. As I said before, "A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." 'Nuff said.

    2) The homuncular fallacy - which you are committing, not I - is pointless and needless. By (my) definition, the subconscious mind is the "man behind the curtain" and requires no further "lesser man behind the curtain" to drive it. So your position on that is, at best, silly.

    3) You use the phrase "... we work as one unit...", which, by definition strongly implies multiple parts functioning together as a single whole. Your own argument dispenses with your position.

    4) Absolutely nothing in anything I or others have said here presents the GB as a 'magic bullet' or a 'one size fits all' solution. I use any number of different methodologies. However, the GB "does what it says on the label" and consistently delivers real and lasting change for literally thousands of people around the world every day (based upon those I have trained and reports from those who have purchased my videos.)

    5) Schizophrenia is not the same thing as multiple personality disorder/IDD/or whatever the latest name is for it. Again, 'nuff said.

    6) In the final analysis, your position that success rates don't mean anything presents you as one who cares little for giving the client what he/she has asked for and wants, elevating self-aggrandizing 'research' to an undeserved position of being all important. Or, put another way, it says you don't care about helping people, only proving something.

    Well, prove away. And I shall keep helping people. Doing THAT is what really matters to me.

    Best,

    Jeff S
  • As I said, without anything concrete being said from you, I will stay with my opinion that from what I've seen of your performance and ideas, I am not impressed. We come from different backgrounds and training styles. I don't believe in "one size fits all" techniques that are very easy to market and teach yet have very little skill involved. But again, you refuse to go into detail about your method which is perfectly reasonable and I have no qualms about that whatsoever. But then allow this discussion to continue in a more considerate way.

    But just to "get things straight"

    "
    So let me get this straight; If I GIVE you my system you will be happy to evaluate it from a position of prior bias. I'll pass"

    No, I said if you go into detail about your technique I will be happy to show you what its doing to make it work or not work. I like to see what others come up with. But if it involves a theory about making someone's "subconscious" believe the individual was never a smoker thus no withdrawal symptoms? That sounds beyond far fetched. And involving fluffy ideas like "subconscious" and "believe" make me skeptical. Again, I'm open to hear if this interpretation is inaccurate but its this interpretation that initiated my response. So if this is not so, please correct me.

    "There is no such thing as 'scientific evidence' to prove there is no subconscious."

    Well let's take a look at this because this strikes me as odd coming from someone with experience etc. If we take the idea of "subconscious" and define that as an underlying reasoning process that is outside an person's typical range of awareness, then that is separate from an "unconscious mind". As in a separate mind. As in suggesting a person has two minds. Let's cut the skull open. We see one brain. Where's the other? Doesn't exist. We're talking about abstractions "subconscious" "unconscious" . . .metaphors at best which relate to NOTHING at the concrete sensory level. They're theories and fluffy nothings that SOME hypnotists have used as their underlying theory of behavior in another person. So at the metaphorical level is does not exist because it's not a THING, it's a thought, an idea. And at the physical level we see ONE brain, one mind. So it doesn't exist there either. If you want to discuss abstractions,metaphors or other cognitive tools, then let's talk about that. But here you're literally saying people have two brains or some metaphorical "subsconscious" actually exists in tangible reality. And it clearly does not. It's an idea.

    "The homuncular fallacy - which you are committing, not I - is pointless and needless. By (my) definition, the subconscious mind is the "man behind the curtain" and requires no further "lesser man behind the curtain" to drive it. So your position on that is, at best, silly."

    As I pointed out above, there is no physical "man" anywhere. It's an idea. Ideas are not concrete and real but are abstractions. To ME, YOU sound silly for inventing some fictional person and claiming it's real. And if you imply that consciousness needs a subconscious then EVERY consciousness does. So the consciousness of the consciousness needs what? . . . . Yes, another consciousness to drive it. You invite this complexity by implication good sir.

    "Absolutely nothing in anything I or others have said here presents the GB as a 'magic bullet' or a 'one size fits all' solution. I use any number of different methodologies. However, the GB "does what it says on the label" and consistently delivers real and lasting change for literally thousands of people around the world every day (based upon those I have trained and reports from those who have purchased my videos.)"

    Again, I would love to hear your theory behind it and learn more about it. But at the outset, it seems unattractive to me based on your videos on "10 steps to hypnosis". I found your steps slightly off color. "Act of compliance" basically telling people what to do. . . not good. What you're talking about is response attentiveness and it can be attained in a number of better ways which aren't so potentially threatening to a client. Especially if that client has had abusive traumas by someone who is commanding and domineering in nature. Milton was very big on response attentiveness and had a big problem with hypnotists using direct and commanding ways. That's a big part why he's so famous and why he was so talented. He didn't need to be direct. He was more artful and considerate. So if such a basic idea as response attentiveness is confused by you, how can one trust your other products won't produce more of the same? THAT creates a pattern as well.





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    "Schizophrenia is not the same thing as multiple personality disorder/IDD/or whatever the latest name is for it. Again, 'nuff said."

    Not worth responding to.

    "In the final analysis, your position that success rates don't mean anything presents you as one who cares little for giving the client what he/she has asked for and wants, elevating self-aggrandizing 'research' to an undeserved position of being all important. Or, put another way, it says you don't care about helping people, only proving something. "

    So because I realize that some people will respond to ANY intervention that means I don't care about them? Shoddy logic to me. I realize that some people will respond to anything so I'm more selective and skeptical about what I hear hypnotists say about their intervention method. I'm skeptical because i DO care and never give up on a client. So you and I would agree that there are many charletons and fake hypnotists trying to make a buck. I'm very aware of these people and will remain as such.

    I do not wish to argue. Like I said I was brief and tired. So here are my statements and I apologize for my impulsive and uncivilized attitude towards you. Let's continue this conversation in a better light. Does that sound agreeable to you?





    Post edited by aceofmagic at 2012-01-31 17:54:50
    What do you want? Where are you in relation to that? And what do you need to pull in to get there?
  • It is the objective of this method to motivate the client to refrain from smoking.
    Hypnosis for smoking can be employed using three methods: self-hypnosis , working with a hypnotherapist or a combination of both methods.

  • Right, but the actual technique and strategy for accomplishing that goal varies immensely depending on the person you have in front of you. The objective of "refrain from smoking" is definitely a major part of our end process. However, getting down to the specifics of our work will give us much more room to work and make it easy to think about what method we will employ. Is "refrain from smoking" specified at all? Not so much. There's a big difference between "refrain from smoking" vs. "I have to figure out: What this person wants to do instead of smoking, what they've tried in the past, what contextual markers trigger the smoking urge, how is this person motivated and demotivated, how they're framing the smoking issue (difference between "I want to stop smoking vs "I want to stop smoking and start becoming more health conscious" or "I want to live long enough to see my grandkids graduate college". There's actually quite a bit to make something specific enough where our work becomes easy. A person who is motivated by living might buy into the "what are you doing, you'll f-ing die?!" Line. Where someone who can care less about death and really doesn't value life may be motivated by someone whom they care about telling them how selfish they are for trying to die early and hurting everyone around them. It's a big difference. Not everyone is the same. It may sound extremely daunting to read all that. I mean, how can it NOT? Its loads of information and tons of work. But that aside, once we practice and become skilled enough, all these steps become second nature and we barely have to think twice about what to do next with any given individual. If the right things are developed, it makes our work actually a lot easier and more fun. But it takes work and practice. Those are two things that a lot of folks don't want to put in. They want quick fixes or immediate skills and that mindset isn't going to help anyone. They'll get more frustrated than anything. I've been there, I know that road well. I've abandoned it quite a while ago.

    But getting down to the core of what some is trying to achieve and how they're framing the current problem is quite straightforward. This is the difference between becoming a professional at hypnosis and studying hypnosis as a hobby or interest.
    What do you want? Where are you in relation to that? And what do you need to pull in to get there?

  • Just to summarize my perspective on this. I realize I post on many discussion and my view may seem very different from traditional hypnosis. In some instances, my perspective even seems threatening or silly. It's interesting to note that my view stems from years of practice, research and high quality training. It's in the doing. I have realized that many of the old hypnosis traditions and rituals do not need to be imposed. And in some cases they can even be harmful. My agenda is no secret. I wish to share this knowledge with the hypnosis realm in order to push the field further into development. Getting rid of the old ways and sharpening them, polishing them, refining them so they become stronger is the name of the game for me.

    I feel this needs to be done and too many younger hypnotists are being persuaded by limitations or shoddy technique. Most professional hypnotists are unaware of the function of the techniques and methods hypnosis employs. I mentioned suggestibility tests in another discussion. What's the function? To test suggestibility? Well take a step back and ask, "What's suggestibility to begin with?" Suggestibility can be loosely defined as the capacity an individual has of responding to another person. Suggestion itself is too broad a word to accurately define. Same thing with trance. These words have been applied to literally any response a client may make. For easy clarity let it suffice to say "Suggestion is a form of psychological influence" Again really broad but a little more accurate. We are influenced by literally everything we come in contact with. The ads on your cereal box in the morning, the newspaper headlines, stubbing your toe in the morning. . . everything influences us and how we think. Plenty of research from JOhn Bargh clearly points out how unconscious processes are influenced. His work on Priming is gold.

    This being said, we know from cognitive research that if everything we sense (smell, see, feel etc) has a psychological consequence, then we are suggestible beings from the get-go. There seems to be a lack of evidence to the notion of "how suggestible" because we are highly suggestible by implication. Our nervous system never touches the "real world" yet we interpret it anyway. So obviously everyone is just as suggestible as anyone else. But how can this be? A technique for visualization may not work for everyone. Explain that!

    Right, even though we're all influenced the same way through our senses and nervous system, our personality and unique qualities shine through as well. So a person may think imaging a lemon drop is stupid and "duh"-like. So perhaps taking this person on a white water rafting visualization may be more appropriate. You design your work based on the person in front of you, not from techniques in a book.

    Suggestibility tests are faulty from the outset because they're testing for what is already there. The function is to create evocative imagery and see to what extent the person in front of you responds. So basically, suggestibility is determined by what YOU'RE able to do with someone. NOT the person themselves. Yet we're testing the PERSON! See how this is getting a little whacky?

    My proposition is simply this: If you are going to use evocative imagery to get someone to respond to you, skip the test and get right down to the work! If you're going to try and elicit responses from them anyway, might as well get down to the reason they're there instead of side tracking with suggestibility confusions.

    Become skilled in using language and simply do it with the client. Track what he responds to and what he doesn't and tailor your approach accordingly. It's a foolproof way of working but takes practice to do that. But its the professional's approach.

    I've posted examples of evocative imagery all over this site. Haven't seen one person say they weren't profoundly influenced by it yet. It's just that powerful.

    Point being, I want to further hypnosis along and that means getting rid of old ideas. Milton H. Erickson did the same exact thing and got ridiculed to all hell. He was threatened and made fun of for his ideas and changes to hypnosis. But his skill and success was undeniable. He changed hypnosis forever. I plan on humbly doing similar for this site.
    What do you want? Where are you in relation to that? And what do you need to pull in to get there?
  • Ok - Lets put a quick end to this -

    @High_Flyer wants to know how to use the Golden Box better, as fathered by @JeffreyStephens -

    Here is my official standing - If it works, if its affective, its real - after all, what is reality?

    The Subconscious Mind Does not Exist? -
    Here is a question in response - How does it matter if it does or doesn't?

    If what we do helps a client and if we used a pink elephant to do it, why not?
    Its real for those its real for.

    @JeffreyStephens - IMHO is one of the best hypnotists I know because of a few simple reasons that need no explanation -

    1 - He does hypnosis simply
    2 - he simply does hypnosis
    3 - he does what works
    4 - what he does works
    5 - He is effective - nothing can beat this point.


  • I agree that this conversation probably needs an ending as it clearly had a beginning.
    What do you want? Where are you in relation to that? And what do you need to pull in to get there?

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The International Association for Youth Hypnotists [IAYH] was proudly founded in September 2008 by Leo Gopal and Nathan Thomas.

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